Engineer planning guidelines don't do a good job of taking into account a defensive position that is devoid of a key needed material. That was the point of proposing that overhead shelter-covers be prefabbed in a forest area and brought to the paddy defense site.
Malaya What If
- Thread starter Fatboy Coxy
- Start date
Yep- being short of tools, materials, labor, or transport just adds to the time.
The hole in a two man position is about 6’6”x2’ and armpit deep, so let’s call that 4 feet. Your support logs will be 1 foot out from the front and back of the hole and half buried in the ground, and you’ll need 8-12” of elevation to shoot, so that’s two big logs of 16-24” diameter or a staked in stack of logs 4-6” (nominal 5”) in diameter and all 6’ long- this is also your frontal and rear cover Then, you’ll need stringers- 4-6” (nominal 5”) diameter and at least 6’ (better to be 8’ to allow for more earth heaping and camouflage)- without a dust proof layer of plywood, the stringer logs will need to be layed and staked so they touch- that’s 12 or 13 more logs. The you can cover that with at least 18” of packed dirt or sandbags, plus the same on the front and back slope and sides (sandbags are best on sides/back/front, dirt on top)- that will let you ride out a contact burst from a 5” shell firing quick fuze (sorry if it’s delay) and anything else landing close by. The waterproofing layer goes on over any sandbags to keep them from absorbing water and collapsing the roof (best not to use them in the roof). Then you camouflage. Hopefully the soil is stable enough that you don’t have to revet or dig (and camouflage) shock trenches.
So, that’s about 150’ of fairly straight and sound nominal 5” diameter logs for each position, or little over 1350 pounds of wood (using red oak as an example) at about 64 pounds a log to cut and move just for a two man hole. It’s quicker and easier to use dimensional lumber- you can drop a kit of 4’x4’x3/4” plywood sheet (for the dust proof layer), 6”x6”x6’ for the front and rear and either 4”x4”x8‘ (at 6” on center) or 6”x6”x8’ (these touch and are only necessary when you’re expecting 6” and higher) for for each position along with a couple bales of sandbags, hammers and nails, and waterproof sheeting (it may have transpired that a couple of five ton trucks were sent under cover of darkness to a local home improvement store to buy up their entire stock of 4x4s, 6x6s and 3/4” plywood when said items were in short supply during an exercise- first cut’s free!). Infantry don‘t normally have the time, tools, and expertise to lumberjack sufficient timber to build field fortifications- this is the province of labor, civilian, or non-combat engineer units,
Digging in with overhead cover is a major, miserable, and tiring undertaking; besides the labor, establishing a prepared defense for a battalion can easily require the efforts of a division or higher to assemble, prepare, and transport the materiel. In the defense of Bataan, a major engineer task was the establishment of a sawmill and logging operation to produce dimensional lumber for use in field fortifications.
You can dig directly into the dike of a dry paddy field and revet the resultant “burrow“ with lumber- the VC Main Force used this technique and the Germans employed a similar technique in the bocage- it’s adequate against small arms and mortars, but risks collapse against medium artillery or a direct impact from a medium direct fire weapon. With preparation, automatic weapons can be sited through breaches in the dike to maximize their grazing fire across the unit frontage, although most riflemen will end up being forced to engage targets to their front and forfeit some frontal protection. An additional concern is the size of the fighting position- it may not be feasible to have 2-3 man positions, meaning junior soldiers could be alone without leadership during the fight.
The hole in a two man position is about 6’6”x2’ and armpit deep, so let’s call that 4 feet. Your support logs will be 1 foot out from the front and back of the hole and half buried in the ground, and you’ll need 8-12” of elevation to shoot, so that’s two big logs of 16-24” diameter or a staked in stack of logs 4-6” (nominal 5”) in diameter and all 6’ long- this is also your frontal and rear cover Then, you’ll need stringers- 4-6” (nominal 5”) diameter and at least 6’ (better to be 8’ to allow for more earth heaping and camouflage)- without a dust proof layer of plywood, the stringer logs will need to be layed and staked so they touch- that’s 12 or 13 more logs. The you can cover that with at least 18” of packed dirt or sandbags, plus the same on the front and back slope and sides (sandbags are best on sides/back/front, dirt on top)- that will let you ride out a contact burst from a 5” shell firing quick fuze (sorry if it’s delay) and anything else landing close by. The waterproofing layer goes on over any sandbags to keep them from absorbing water and collapsing the roof (best not to use them in the roof). Then you camouflage. Hopefully the soil is stable enough that you don’t have to revet or dig (and camouflage) shock trenches.
So, that’s about 150’ of fairly straight and sound nominal 5” diameter logs for each position, or little over 1350 pounds of wood (using red oak as an example) at about 64 pounds a log to cut and move just for a two man hole. It’s quicker and easier to use dimensional lumber- you can drop a kit of 4’x4’x3/4” plywood sheet (for the dust proof layer), 6”x6”x6’ for the front and rear and either 4”x4”x8‘ (at 6” on center) or 6”x6”x8’ (these touch and are only necessary when you’re expecting 6” and higher) for for each position along with a couple bales of sandbags, hammers and nails, and waterproof sheeting (it may have transpired that a couple of five ton trucks were sent under cover of darkness to a local home improvement store to buy up their entire stock of 4x4s, 6x6s and 3/4” plywood when said items were in short supply during an exercise- first cut’s free!). Infantry don‘t normally have the time, tools, and expertise to lumberjack sufficient timber to build field fortifications- this is the province of labor, civilian, or non-combat engineer units,
Digging in with overhead cover is a major, miserable, and tiring undertaking; besides the labor, establishing a prepared defense for a battalion can easily require the efforts of a division or higher to assemble, prepare, and transport the materiel. In the defense of Bataan, a major engineer task was the establishment of a sawmill and logging operation to produce dimensional lumber for use in field fortifications.
You can dig directly into the dike of a dry paddy field and revet the resultant “burrow“ with lumber- the VC Main Force used this technique and the Germans employed a similar technique in the bocage- it’s adequate against small arms and mortars, but risks collapse against medium artillery or a direct impact from a medium direct fire weapon. With preparation, automatic weapons can be sited through breaches in the dike to maximize their grazing fire across the unit frontage, although most riflemen will end up being forced to engage targets to their front and forfeit some frontal protection. An additional concern is the size of the fighting position- it may not be feasible to have 2-3 man positions, meaning junior soldiers could be alone without leadership during the fight.
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Padi fields are a uniquely tropical environment. When wet, they are difficult for most tanks to cross. When dry, it is easier but in both cases, you lack cover. Bunds between the fields offer some cover. Infantry crossing wet fields have to contend with water, which limits the cover they can receive. Weapons tend to stoppages in wet conditions for infantry. Australians in Vietnam tended to avoid padi fields because of this. Tanks have a danger of "bottoming" in padi fields where they get stuck by suction between the tanks bottom and the field surface, particularly when wet. The key to an attack across a padi field is speed. Speed to cross the field is important. I base my comments on what I leant in the late 1970s in the Australian Army.
The problem with trying to prepare defences in paddy fields - at least in the wet season - is that any hole you dig will just flood or subside immediately. This was a problem OTL in places like the Jitra line. The main monsoon season in Malaya (Northeast Monsoon) runs November to March, so expect things to be very wet along the East Coast (Gulf of Siam), somewhat drier in the West.
My (very amateur) take on it is that paddy fields in monsoon season are nasty places to defend in (you're forced into a linear defence along the dykes, it's hard to conceal positions and all those dykes and paths offer dozens of infiltration routes that are hard to cover unless you spread yourself very thin) and even worse to attack (the mud slows you down, there's no cover once you've gone over the dyke and it's hard to bring up heavy equipment). But frontal infantry attack against a prepared defence has rarely been a winning strategy anywhere, particularly in the Pacific theatre where troop densities are low enough that infiltration/outflanking is usually an option.
My (very amateur) take on it is that paddy fields in monsoon season are nasty places to defend in (you're forced into a linear defence along the dykes, it's hard to conceal positions and all those dykes and paths offer dozens of infiltration routes that are hard to cover unless you spread yourself very thin) and even worse to attack (the mud slows you down, there's no cover once you've gone over the dyke and it's hard to bring up heavy equipment). But frontal infantry attack against a prepared defence has rarely been a winning strategy anywhere, particularly in the Pacific theatre where troop densities are low enough that infiltration/outflanking is usually an option.
The east coast will be in the wet season during the December/Jan attack window. The west coast is dry. Historically, that was the main avenue of approach. I guess it’s a case of pick your paddy…
The key terrain in theater is control of lines of communication, airfields, ports, and population centers astride them. If that’s the case, it allows the defender to focus around that terrain and accept some risk by leaving OPs or screening forces on less likely avenues of approach like paddy fields. Ditto for the attacker- the Japanese were terrain oriented (terrain based objectives rather than the enemy force as the objective) in Malaya, they will gravitate toward that key terrain. IJA doctrine has them trying to bypass ready made engagement areas like paddies when possible and using an advanced guard and speed to rapidly blow through any screen. If you have to attack there, envelop the position, or try to blow through with a rapid attack from the march based on IJA doctrine.
The key terrain in theater is control of lines of communication, airfields, ports, and population centers astride them. If that’s the case, it allows the defender to focus around that terrain and accept some risk by leaving OPs or screening forces on less likely avenues of approach like paddy fields. Ditto for the attacker- the Japanese were terrain oriented (terrain based objectives rather than the enemy force as the objective) in Malaya, they will gravitate toward that key terrain. IJA doctrine has them trying to bypass ready made engagement areas like paddies when possible and using an advanced guard and speed to rapidly blow through any screen. If you have to attack there, envelop the position, or try to blow through with a rapid attack from the march based on IJA doctrine.
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Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
and
Hi Vetinari and Merrick, I'm with you both on this, avoid them if you can, if not get across fast!, other than the first world war battlefields, I can't think of any better killing fields than these.
I also have to say a big thank you to Amir and JWilly48519, explaining how the professionals go about it in this very difficult terrain, which is good, because you are going to read about it a quite a few times.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Hi Alspug, we're all on padi fields and your on tanks, which was being discussed ages ago
. Having said that, thank you, these are excellent films, displaying the problems of simply using tanks in tropical conditions, and will be invaluable for when I'm writing about the tanks. I know now a variety of ways to get a tank stuck, and how they might pull it out too!Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
And while we're on the subject of youtube videos
And to prove that point, see
which is an excellent piece on Japanese submarines.
Hi Steamboy, thank you for this, I greatly admired Drachinifel, but regarding this answer to a question he provided, I think he's best sticking to his sea environment, I'll say no more.
And to prove that point, see
which is an excellent piece on Japanese submarines.
If I remember it correctly there are three areas where padi's played a part in the defense of Northern Malaya. Around Jitra. In front of Gurun. And to the west of Kampar and north of Telok Anson(?).
Since this is a new time line, the question I have is can the left flank be held at Kampar? If the small boats are rounded up near Penang/Georgetown and sent south in early December, there is no seaborne flanking. The IJA will have to slog their way thru the Malayan defenses
MWI 41120216 Relations With Thailand
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Tuesday 02 December;
Sir Josiah Crosby, Britain’s Ambassador to Thailand had been summoned by their Prime Minister, Phibun, something he was quite unused to. He’d been left waiting alone for twenty minutes now, in the Golden Dome room of the Thai-Khu-Fah, the Prime Minister’s office, somewhat bemused by it all, his aide held back in the reception. The large door swung open, and Phibun, dressed in the full military uniform of a Field Marshal, entered, waving an under-secretary away, the door closing behind him. They spoke in Thai, Crosby a fluent speaker, “Ah Sir Josiah, thank you for coming, and my apologies for making you wait, something er, came up!”
“Oh no, please don’t apologise on my behalf, Prime Minister, I’m sure it was of the utmost importance, I fully understand” Sir Josiah knew how to play this game. “How might I be of service to the Thai people?” They both gave small smiles, Phibun gestured to a couple of armchairs, then rang a small silver bell as they sat down. A servant stepped into the room, Phibun ordered two Cha Manao, without asking Crosby, another slight, clearly things were amiss. They waited in silence, Crosby practicing patience, until the drinks arrival, and they were alone again.
Phibun raised his glass and nodded to Crosby, who was quick to follow, Phibun took a sip, his tongue rolling around in his mouth, savouring the lime tasting tea, before swallowing with a satisfied Ah! “Sir Josiah, it has come to my notice that your Lord Gort has placed a large number of troops close to our border, far more than is necessary to police it, what is the meaning of this?”
Crosby slowly swallowed a mouthful of tea, making play with enjoying it, while his mind mulled over the question. “Prime Minister, Lord Gort has ordered the colony onto a second degree of military readiness, expressing great concern over the ever-growing concentration of Japanese military might in French Indo-China, we are merely repositioning some troops to be in readiness of any attack from Japan. And I believe we duly notified your government through the correct channels. There is no need to be alarmed, our intentions are purely defensive, and peaceful towards yourselves, the Thai people have nothing to fear”.
“Your Royal Air Force has increased its flights over Southern Thailand, their roundels clearly displayed, the state of Kelantan, has become an armed camp, while I understand there is a veritable mass of soldiers and vehicles around Alor Star. These do not look like the acts of a friendly nation. Sir Josiah, are you intending to invade us?”
“Prime Minister, my dear friend, I can assure you Britain has no intentions on breaking our peace with Thailand, the Non-Aggression pact we both signed last year still holds good, you have my solemn word on that. Britain has never first to brake a pact, we honour our commitments. The RAF aircraft your people have seen are flying along the coastal waters, watching for any Japanese incursion, while the state of Kelantan, is key to our abilities to watch the Japanese in French Indo-China, its airfields are of great importance to us, and so must be well defended. And Alor Star is a military administrative base, from which the control and supply of our defences, the Jira Line, are managed. You should carry no fear of any British incursion into Thailand, of Japanese intentions however, you must surely be on your guard, I would urge you to oppose any attempt on their part to enter your country.”
“Thank you, Sir Josiah, indeed Japan is very threatening, she is far, far stronger than Thailand, I would fear for my country in any war with them. As a true friend of Thailand, a guarantee of our independence and neutrality made by Great Britain would send the strongest message to Japan to respect our borders”.
“Ah Prime Minister, we have had this discussion before, I’ve made you aware of the difficulties of taking that stance, and the work we are doing to agree a joint pact with the Americans, but it takes time. Rest assured, if you are attacked, we will do everything in our power to assist you”.
Meanwhile, across Bangkok, taking advantage of Crosby's absence, Andrew Gilchrist, second secretary of the British Consulate was taking a walk in Lumphini Park with Pridi Banomyong, the Thai Minister of Finance, a similar conversation was being had between them. “Thank you for meeting with me again Pridi, I wouldn’t have asked at such short notice but for the urgency, British intelligence is reporting the likelihood of a Japanese invasion of Thailand within the next seven to ten days, its probable they will attack us both at the same time. I suspect Phibun is asking Crosby for a British Guarantee as we speak, but he won’t be offered one”.
They sauntered along a neatly kept gravel path, a trusted aide of each following thirty yards behind. “Ah that is why our cabinet meeting for this evening has been postponed. This is indeed very grave news Andrew, we are simply not powerful enough to resist Japan, Phibun may well strike a deal with them, he’d argue better that than the death and destruction they would rain down on us”.
“Pridi, it’s important that Thailand at the very least, remains neutral and doesn’t become an enemy of Britain. If Japan occupies the Kra Isthmus, Britian will have to attack, from a military point of view, it would be important that Japan isn’t allowed to build a base there from which she could attack Northern Malaya. If Phibun can’t see that, is there anyone in the Military who can stay his hand, avoid a war between us?”
The Thai stopped suddenly, turning to face Gilchrist, his hands out gesturing. “Andrew, Phibun has the military in his pocket, he owns them, there is no possibility of a coup, indeed most of them love him, the war with Vichy France was a success, who else has fought back against a major military power like France and succeeded”.
Gilchrist held his hand up, “No Pridi, you misunderstand me, not a coup, but a delay, a slow reaction to events, blame it on poor communications, misunderstandings, just give us a few days grace. Do you know Major General Akdi Senanarong, he commands the troops down in the Kra Isthmus, can you talk to him, could you convince him to do that?”
Gilchrist took Banomyong by the arm, and they resumed the walk, “Yes, I know him Andrew, your fortunate, he’s not part of Phibun’s inner circle, they are commanding Bangkok’s garrison, or units facing the French. But he’s not a stupid man, Andrew, he can’t be seen to favour the British, the best you could hope is a passive reaction to both sides. And that’s going to take a lot of Baht, I trust your pockets are deep Andrew”.
“Name your price Pridi, our aides will act as our agents in this matter, payment wise, a third up front and the rest on a satisfactory delay, would seem reasonable?”
“A half up front Andrew, there are a number of palms to be greased, as you say, and I will pass on a figure tomorrow, our agents can meet here again.”
“Ok I accept, Pridi, what you are doing here is of immeasurable help to both your people and mine, I thank you, you are a true patriot to the Thai people. Oh, and not a word of anyone this to my Ambassador, Sir Josiah would rather not be reminded of this undertaking.”
Later, a very tired and disgruntled Sir Josiah Crosby returned to the British Embassy, wanting some answers. He had Gilchrist in his private office, the whisky left untouched in the crystal decanter. “Andrew, what the bloody hell is Singapore up to, I’ve had three hours with that man, prostrating myself while he stuck the knife into me repeatedly. Whats all this nonsense about RAF flights overland, I thought that game had ended back in October, when it was finally agreed that we would not implement any invasion plan and break our pact with Thailand. Lord Gort gave me the strongest of assurances that there would be no incursion of Thailand. And whats this about mobile columns around Alor Star, I thought we were sitting behind the Jitra Line”.
“Sir Josiah, that is exactly the plan, defend at the Jitra Line, we don’t have sufficent forces to move into Thailand and defend her from any Japanese aggression. But Gort will need mobile columns to react quickly to any breaks in our defence. As far as the RAF are concerned, they are mounting reconnaissance over the Gulf of Siam, to detect any invasion force early. Do you think Phibun is trying to justify a reason to throw his hand in with the Japanese”.
“No, no Andrew, I’m sorry, I’m very tired, Phibun knows not to make a deal with the Japanese, I’m confident of that, but I’ve never seen him so aggressive. He kept coming back to our not providing him with a guarantee of security, no matter how many times I explained the need to be in step with the Americans, he kept coming back to that. That last American ambassador made such a mess of things, I should have insisted they get rid of him earlier, I didn’t realise how badly he had damaged relations. Oh god I need a whisky, would you mind pouring one for me please Andrew, and help yourself to one as well.
Sir Josiah Crosby, Britain’s Ambassador to Thailand had been summoned by their Prime Minister, Phibun, something he was quite unused to. He’d been left waiting alone for twenty minutes now, in the Golden Dome room of the Thai-Khu-Fah, the Prime Minister’s office, somewhat bemused by it all, his aide held back in the reception. The large door swung open, and Phibun, dressed in the full military uniform of a Field Marshal, entered, waving an under-secretary away, the door closing behind him. They spoke in Thai, Crosby a fluent speaker, “Ah Sir Josiah, thank you for coming, and my apologies for making you wait, something er, came up!”
“Oh no, please don’t apologise on my behalf, Prime Minister, I’m sure it was of the utmost importance, I fully understand” Sir Josiah knew how to play this game. “How might I be of service to the Thai people?” They both gave small smiles, Phibun gestured to a couple of armchairs, then rang a small silver bell as they sat down. A servant stepped into the room, Phibun ordered two Cha Manao, without asking Crosby, another slight, clearly things were amiss. They waited in silence, Crosby practicing patience, until the drinks arrival, and they were alone again.
Phibun raised his glass and nodded to Crosby, who was quick to follow, Phibun took a sip, his tongue rolling around in his mouth, savouring the lime tasting tea, before swallowing with a satisfied Ah! “Sir Josiah, it has come to my notice that your Lord Gort has placed a large number of troops close to our border, far more than is necessary to police it, what is the meaning of this?”
Crosby slowly swallowed a mouthful of tea, making play with enjoying it, while his mind mulled over the question. “Prime Minister, Lord Gort has ordered the colony onto a second degree of military readiness, expressing great concern over the ever-growing concentration of Japanese military might in French Indo-China, we are merely repositioning some troops to be in readiness of any attack from Japan. And I believe we duly notified your government through the correct channels. There is no need to be alarmed, our intentions are purely defensive, and peaceful towards yourselves, the Thai people have nothing to fear”.
“Your Royal Air Force has increased its flights over Southern Thailand, their roundels clearly displayed, the state of Kelantan, has become an armed camp, while I understand there is a veritable mass of soldiers and vehicles around Alor Star. These do not look like the acts of a friendly nation. Sir Josiah, are you intending to invade us?”
“Prime Minister, my dear friend, I can assure you Britain has no intentions on breaking our peace with Thailand, the Non-Aggression pact we both signed last year still holds good, you have my solemn word on that. Britain has never first to brake a pact, we honour our commitments. The RAF aircraft your people have seen are flying along the coastal waters, watching for any Japanese incursion, while the state of Kelantan, is key to our abilities to watch the Japanese in French Indo-China, its airfields are of great importance to us, and so must be well defended. And Alor Star is a military administrative base, from which the control and supply of our defences, the Jira Line, are managed. You should carry no fear of any British incursion into Thailand, of Japanese intentions however, you must surely be on your guard, I would urge you to oppose any attempt on their part to enter your country.”
“Thank you, Sir Josiah, indeed Japan is very threatening, she is far, far stronger than Thailand, I would fear for my country in any war with them. As a true friend of Thailand, a guarantee of our independence and neutrality made by Great Britain would send the strongest message to Japan to respect our borders”.
“Ah Prime Minister, we have had this discussion before, I’ve made you aware of the difficulties of taking that stance, and the work we are doing to agree a joint pact with the Americans, but it takes time. Rest assured, if you are attacked, we will do everything in our power to assist you”.
Meanwhile, across Bangkok, taking advantage of Crosby's absence, Andrew Gilchrist, second secretary of the British Consulate was taking a walk in Lumphini Park with Pridi Banomyong, the Thai Minister of Finance, a similar conversation was being had between them. “Thank you for meeting with me again Pridi, I wouldn’t have asked at such short notice but for the urgency, British intelligence is reporting the likelihood of a Japanese invasion of Thailand within the next seven to ten days, its probable they will attack us both at the same time. I suspect Phibun is asking Crosby for a British Guarantee as we speak, but he won’t be offered one”.
They sauntered along a neatly kept gravel path, a trusted aide of each following thirty yards behind. “Ah that is why our cabinet meeting for this evening has been postponed. This is indeed very grave news Andrew, we are simply not powerful enough to resist Japan, Phibun may well strike a deal with them, he’d argue better that than the death and destruction they would rain down on us”.
“Pridi, it’s important that Thailand at the very least, remains neutral and doesn’t become an enemy of Britain. If Japan occupies the Kra Isthmus, Britian will have to attack, from a military point of view, it would be important that Japan isn’t allowed to build a base there from which she could attack Northern Malaya. If Phibun can’t see that, is there anyone in the Military who can stay his hand, avoid a war between us?”
The Thai stopped suddenly, turning to face Gilchrist, his hands out gesturing. “Andrew, Phibun has the military in his pocket, he owns them, there is no possibility of a coup, indeed most of them love him, the war with Vichy France was a success, who else has fought back against a major military power like France and succeeded”.
Gilchrist held his hand up, “No Pridi, you misunderstand me, not a coup, but a delay, a slow reaction to events, blame it on poor communications, misunderstandings, just give us a few days grace. Do you know Major General Akdi Senanarong, he commands the troops down in the Kra Isthmus, can you talk to him, could you convince him to do that?”
Gilchrist took Banomyong by the arm, and they resumed the walk, “Yes, I know him Andrew, your fortunate, he’s not part of Phibun’s inner circle, they are commanding Bangkok’s garrison, or units facing the French. But he’s not a stupid man, Andrew, he can’t be seen to favour the British, the best you could hope is a passive reaction to both sides. And that’s going to take a lot of Baht, I trust your pockets are deep Andrew”.
“Name your price Pridi, our aides will act as our agents in this matter, payment wise, a third up front and the rest on a satisfactory delay, would seem reasonable?”
“A half up front Andrew, there are a number of palms to be greased, as you say, and I will pass on a figure tomorrow, our agents can meet here again.”
“Ok I accept, Pridi, what you are doing here is of immeasurable help to both your people and mine, I thank you, you are a true patriot to the Thai people. Oh, and not a word of anyone this to my Ambassador, Sir Josiah would rather not be reminded of this undertaking.”
Later, a very tired and disgruntled Sir Josiah Crosby returned to the British Embassy, wanting some answers. He had Gilchrist in his private office, the whisky left untouched in the crystal decanter. “Andrew, what the bloody hell is Singapore up to, I’ve had three hours with that man, prostrating myself while he stuck the knife into me repeatedly. Whats all this nonsense about RAF flights overland, I thought that game had ended back in October, when it was finally agreed that we would not implement any invasion plan and break our pact with Thailand. Lord Gort gave me the strongest of assurances that there would be no incursion of Thailand. And whats this about mobile columns around Alor Star, I thought we were sitting behind the Jitra Line”.
“Sir Josiah, that is exactly the plan, defend at the Jitra Line, we don’t have sufficent forces to move into Thailand and defend her from any Japanese aggression. But Gort will need mobile columns to react quickly to any breaks in our defence. As far as the RAF are concerned, they are mounting reconnaissance over the Gulf of Siam, to detect any invasion force early. Do you think Phibun is trying to justify a reason to throw his hand in with the Japanese”.
“No, no Andrew, I’m sorry, I’m very tired, Phibun knows not to make a deal with the Japanese, I’m confident of that, but I’ve never seen him so aggressive. He kept coming back to our not providing him with a guarantee of security, no matter how many times I explained the need to be in step with the Americans, he kept coming back to that. That last American ambassador made such a mess of things, I should have insisted they get rid of him earlier, I didn’t realise how badly he had damaged relations. Oh god I need a whisky, would you mind pouring one for me please Andrew, and help yourself to one as well.
Was this Hugh Grant or Willys Peck?
There was a Time Magazine article about AMB Grant's departure that I found. Apparently FDR was not impressed with his politically connected appointment from Alabama. Or did Lend Lease allow for the BFO to make American Foreign Service decisions, as there seems to be an inference made here?
National Affairs: Peck's Good Boy
While Japanese soldiers in French Indo-China made ugly faces across the border at Thailand, the U.S. decided that Bangkok was no place for a noncareer diplomat, hastily picked one of the ablest (and...
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Driftless
Donor
How much/how little would the in-country ambassador have been read in on general details of an Operation Matador in OTL? I would imagine that some considerable info would be forwarded from London, but how much of Gort's operational plan ITTL would be shared with the Ambassador?
Probably the Intelligence officer (MI-6) and the Military Attache at the Embassy
None beyond what they need to know to accomplish any part they have in the plan, and/or to execute any emergency destruction /sanitization plan. People can‘t be forced to give up information they don’t know.
“Spot a truck a point x” or “signal y is trigger for destroying the crypto and files” probably won’t compromise the operation if it’s forced out under interrogation.
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By comparison, the American participation is so compartmentalized, that the only creature that knows what the Americans will do is probably Fala.
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
Oh dear the meeting between Sir Josiah and the Thai PM, hasn’t gone well, it is most unusual for a PM to talk to an Ambassador directly without his Foreign Minister being present. In addition given just how polite the Thai’s are normally, the level of deliberate rudeness exhibited is a deliberate smack in the face. Unfortunately Sir Josiah in the words of the British Foreign Office, been captured gone native, and as previously been mentioned, can not be trusted anymore to fore fill his role. What he should have done is on returning to his embassy, fired off two coded cables, one to London and the other to Singapore, warning them that it appears that the Thai government is in bed with the Japanese. Yes the situation in Thailand is very complicated, with different factions of the Thai establishment having very different views about the relationship with Britain. It should be remembered that the deal between the British and French, that basically established an independent Thailand, rather than these two colonial powers fighting a war over the territory, didn’t preclude the British from establishing a controlling influence over Thailand. This rightly wasn’t appreciated by many Thai’s, who didn’t appreciate the fact that the Bank of England controlled their currency, and that their government had to take advice from the British Ambassador. Unfortunately the Thai PM, has fallen into the classic trap for a general who has achieved high office in his nation, he believes that you can run a country the same way you run an army, and a minor military success makes you all powerful. The success in his war against the French, note he didn’t pick a fight with the British, with whom the Thai’s also had border disputes, would have taken on a very different aspect if France hadn’t been occupied by the Germans. Instead of a minor win where thanks to Japanese intervention he was allowed to keep some of his gains, he might have achieved initial success, followed by an overwhelming defeat, once the French had been able to redeploy forces to the region. It is obvious that he is worried about the Japanese and is desperate to get a deal with the British, but the problem of the Americans is for the British unsolvable, and even though he doesn’t know it it’s two late. As for the conversation between Sir Josiah and Gilchrist, has just confirmed for Andrew that his boss has totally lost his marbles. Ambassadors don’t get to choose who is to be the ambassador for a foreign nation, and they definitely don’t get to insist that they ? Thai’s or Americans get rid off him. The Foreign Minister can declare an ambassador person non grata, which is going to cause a major diplomatic crisis, but a common or garden ambassador saying to either his hosts or a foreign nation that the ambassador of a foreign nation is unacceptable is definitely not only not the done thing old boy, but bordering on we are looking for a fight. I suspect that Andrew will be sending of a number of coded cables himself, one to the FO in London saying his boss needs a very long holiday somewhere quite a secure, one to the Governor of Singapore explaining everything that is going on and that it looks as if the shit is about to hit the fan. On to the Bank of England, warning them of what’s going on, and to be prepared for stormy waters ahead, especially in regards to the Thai currency, which is about to go down the toilet. And one to the Minimax Fire Extinguisher Company who’s local agent he is bringing them fully up to date with the situation.
RR.
RR.
OMG. First an American General in the Philippines. Then the PM of Thailand. And now the British Ambassador to Thailand. However can this contagion be stopped from spreading further!? Or will it make the leap into the IJA upper echelons too!?!? What is the European name for all this breaking out? UberAllitis or something/