Ghastly Victories: The United States in the World Wars

Sounds like the US government isn't totally useless in responding to the depression, but is not willing to take serious measures like FDR used.

Jeez, sorry to hear that. Hope you don't actually have the virus.


Huh, I must've missed something. What happened in Austria?

Amyways, the "both sides suck" attitude in this section seems at odds with the mild kaiserbooism/fuck the entente-ism found in many of the other historical documents we've seen so far. I wonder if the former entente is going to do something very stupid in WW2 that will make the USA's population really hate them compared to the former CP
Rapid test says negative, am waiting on the PCR results


It's Austria's reputation as the "Jailer of Nations", basically the idea that the Austrian empire was denying freedom to all its various nationalities, also the fact than in 1914 Austria ranked as the least free country in the world in terms of censorship and a few other factors

This is discussing attitudes in 1928, not the attitudes when this excerpt is written in Universe, that's the difference
 
Amyways, the "both sides suck" attitude in this section seems at odds with the mild kaiserbooism/fuck the entente-ism found in many of the other historical documents we've seen so far. I wonder if the former entente is going to do something very stupid in WW2 that will make the USA's population really hate them compared to the former CP.

The way I read that was that it's more the US public attitude in 1928/29 rather than in the "present day" of TTL. So, whatever the former Entente countries are about to do to ruin their reputation, they still have plenty of time to do it.

I get the sense all will become clear in the next few sections, the last parts of this one probably also give plenty of hints for what is to come.
 
It further made a long war possible. The democratic powers were compelled to cut arms spending by the Depression, giving a chance for the Fascists and Communists to catch up and achieve near parity if not superiority…
So a three-way fight instead of Democracies + Communists against Fascists?
 
Or it could be communists + fascists against western European capitalism before they square up against eachother. If Hitler hadn't been such a brain dead moron, that's where things could have been heading. Theoretically. Wouldn't last for long, but long enough, maybe... 🤷
 
Part 4-1 Unfinished Business, Historical Madness, Revisionist Viewpoints
Ghastly Victories: The United States in the World Wars

A TL by RamscoopRaider

Part IV: Dark Depression



Wherever there is excess, an Axe remedies it-Sumerian Proverb, 3rd Millennium BC

Accursed thirst for Gold! What dost thou not compel mortals to do?-Virgil, the Aeneid

The illustration that solves one difficulty by raising another settles nothing- Horace, Satires, II.3.103

Idle Hands are the Devils Workshop-Proverb derived from St. Jerome

It is necessity and not pleasure that compels us-Dante Alighieri, the Inferno

Nothing has more strength than dire necessity-Euripedes, Helen

Necessity Dominates Inclination, Will and Right-Napoleon Bonaparte




…The Great Depression arguably began on April 1st 1929 with Black Monday. No exact trigger has been found, though a common belief is that numerous investors were liquidating stock to pay for taxes that were due in two weeks. Whatever happened there was heavy trading in the early part of the day that saw the market drop 9% at the opening bell, and overwhelmed stock tickers across the country, blinding those outside Wall Street to the true price of stocks.

A coalition of bankers attempted to stem the panic with a major infusion of cash purchasing blue chip stocks in mass. This worked and on average the market only fell 1% on April first as measured by the Dow Jones Average. However the next day something similar happened and there was not a coalition of major investors willing to try to bail out the market, leading to mass liquidation of stocks as investors facing margin calls sold to balance their accounts. This saw the market drop 10% on the 2nd.

By the 3rd people were selling in mass, and those facing margin calls were being increasing wiped out as the prices fell too low to pay back the money borrowed. Despite an effort by the Rockefellers and other hyper rich to rescue the market, the Dow fell 11% on the 3rd. Thing rebounded slightly on the Fourth, but then fell even more on the fifth, leaving the Dow down 25% since the opening bell on the 1st. This was the start of a long low slide that on May 9th 1932 saw the Dow down 81% compared to its April 1st opening. Recovery would only begin in earnest in December 1932 and only reach its pre-crash value in the late 50’s.

The stock market crash itself did not directly cause the Great Depression. What caused it was the crash wiping out billions of dollars of bank reserves when investors could not pay back the loans they used to buy stocks. This caused a severe contraction in the supply of money. This was made much worse by the Federal Reserve having shifted in 1928 from a policy of price stability to one of Real Bills only, which led the Fed to only lend to banks which could offer commercial paper backed by in process inventory, and the 1929 policy of requiring bankers wishing for loans to submit to interrogation that they never offered speculative loans for stock purchases. As a result banks either could not or would not borrow money from the Federal Reserve, which often meant they did not possess the reserves to cover withdrawals, especially given the increased demands for such withdrawals. As a result banks failed en masse, roughly 7500 over the next four years, shrinking the money supply further.

The bank failures had knock on effects. Even as Banks curtailed their new lending to maintain reserves against withdrawals, they also called back existing loans, further shrinking the money supply. All of these factors led to a massive credit crunch as banks had very little money to lend. This is what hurt the real economy, as businesses who needed to borrow money in the normal course of their business found that they could not do so. This led to business failures and layoffs, which reduced demand, leading to further business failures and layoffs in a cycle that resulted in slightly over 20% unemployment by the beginning of 1933…

…The Black Monday Stock Market crash spread into the overseas financial markets almost instantly. Panic selling started almost as soon as word of Wall Streets misfortune reached the international markets, with only Tokyo avoiding a major crash. While the misfortunes of the international stock markets were largely lesser than those of Wall Street, they were still significant. What was perhaps more significant was a cessation in the flow of American capital. Since WWI the United States had become the primary, if not only, major source of international lending capital. With the credit crunch at home American financial institution were no longer lending abroad. This saw much of the rest of the world enter the same feedback loop as the United States, with ever increasing unemployment as business failures due to lack of credit spiraled out of control…

…One of the factors that truly made the Great Depression great was part of the American response. Namely to protect employment in manufacturing and agriculture the US passed the enormously restrictive Hawley-Smoot Tariff in 1930, which made importing almost anything into the United States both expensive and difficult. Other countries attempted to do the same thing with tariffs of their own and international trade plummeted, making an already bad situation even worse…

-Excerpt from Unfinished Business: The Making of the Second World War, New American Press, Chicago, 2007


…The reaction of President Curtis to the Great Depression in often mischaracterized, with Curtis portrayed as a heartless do nothing willing to let people starve. Those who know more generally blame him for raising taxes to allow a balanced budget and not vetoing the Hawley-Smoot Tariff, which has a far better claim to the moniker of Tariff of Abominations that the 1828 one.

Curtis however was merely acting on the advice of his cabinet members and then accepted economic theory. Raising taxes, maintaining a balanced budget and placing a protective tariff up was right out of the dominant American School of economics that was the orthodoxy of the day. The primary alternative advice Curtis got from his advisors early in the crisis was to let things be completely and do nothing, saying that intervening would only make things worse. Recovery would come on its own and anything they did would merely make things worse.

Curtis being a lawyer rather than an economist, listened to his advisers. While he got advice from economists to veto the Hawley-Smoot Tariff, he also received advice from those with agricultural interests that the agricultural component of the tariff was necessary to make sure the $100 million a year agricultural relief package he signed and supported was not in vain. That the agricultural tariffs came bundled with other tariffs was a reality of getting them through the senate and Curtis thought it a needed compromise.

It is to Curtis’s credit that he eventually recognized that he was receiving bad advice and turned to better advisers…

-Excerpt from Why did they do THAT!?! Historical Madness in Context: Volume III, Harper & Brothers, New York, 2015


…While public perception and pop history places the beginning of the great depression at April 1st 1929, there are arguments that can be made that the depression began even earlier. The Stock Market Crash of April 1st 1929 while portrayed as the single defining cause of the Depression is arguably not.

Sales of automobiles and other major manufactured goods had fallen in the first quarter of 1929 relative to the same time in 1928. Profits had similarly peaked in 1928 compared to 1929. Bank failures were already occurring at a rate of 1 per day or greater even before the Stock Market crash. These and other indicators show that the economic decline began before the Stock Market crash and that a significant part of the depression cannot be laid on the Stock Market Crash itself…

-Excerpt from Revisionist Viewpoints in History Volume X, University of California Press: Berkley, 2000
 
Worst. April Fool's Day. Ever. At least Curtis tries to do something but it's not enough. Most countries throwing up tarfiffs will certainly contributes to the disintegration of the international system. (How much of these tariffs were there OTL?)
 
Sales of automobiles and other major manufactured goods had fallen in the first quarter of 1929 relative to the same time in 1928. Profits had similarly peaked in 1928 compared to 1929. Bank failures were already occurring at a rate of 1 per day or greater even before the Stock Market crash. These and other indicators show that the economic decline began before the Stock Market crash and that a significant part of the depression cannot be laid on the Stock Market Crash itself…
Sounds about right, tbh.

Another good installment. ^^
 
Part 4-2 Unfinished Business
…The economic crash made enormous shockwaves in Europe. As depression and unemployment spread so too did dissatisfaction with the current regimes. The ruling parties, center, center-right, center-left or moderate left or moderate right were seen as responsible for the financial crisis. The conventional responses to economic downturns were overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the Great Depression. The political center was slow to realize this, and was deluged with poor advice by certain economists arguing that they should do nothing, or that they should balance the budget by raising taxes and embracing austerity.

With the center not offering a solution many despondent voters turned to both the Far Left and Far Right for answers. The far left of course argued that this was inherent to capitalism and that embracing communism, most specifically the Marxist-Leninism as practiced by Stalin’s USSR. Embracing Communism would see all monetary worries go away as everyone would receive all that they need, and much that they want, while working in improved conditions to the benefit of all. This of course was a complete fabrication, given the poor conditions of soviet workers, the ongoing starvation in the Ukraine, harsh working conditions and general oppression. However the Soviet propaganda arm was masterful and many with nothing to lose were easily duped by it and joined the far left in the hopes that it would be better.

On the other side of the spectrum the far right offered a third way. Rather than tear everything down and start again as the communists proposed, the Far Right proposed taking elements of what the communists wanted to do, along with some wartime measures from the Great War, and applying them to the current situation. This proved a popular choice, taking some of the economic wind out of the Communist sails without selling out to a foreign power or betraying their nation.

Sanna’s Italy was the model here. Of the world leader he more than anyone else handled the Depression correctly. He recognized that unemployment would lead to uncertainty, and would weaken his legitimacy, thus he launched large scale public infrastructure projects to deal with the masses of unemployed. Generally these took a more manpower intensive approach than necessary in order to reduce financial costs, but reclaiming land and improving infrastructure proved useful investments in the Italian economy.

Furthermore in order to maintain competitiveness and free up economic policy, Sanna was the first leader to leave the gold standard. This made Italian exports competitive despite the tariff walls rising up across the world. It further gave the Italian monetary system room to maneuver, avoiding the liquidity trap most nations found themselves in, and along with a bank holiday, preventing the cascading chains of bank failures seen in other countries. It is thus no wonder that the Fascist system was a model to most of the world, with Sanna’s policies being eventually adopted across much of the world…

…The 1931 Reichstag elections saw the DNVP, DSP and NSDAP form the German National Front, the DNF, in the model of the Italian National Front from the early 20’s. By working together they could avoid splitting the vote and win more seats in total. This was a godsend for the DNVP, who had been losing seats to the better organized DSP and NSDAP, and for the NSDAP who were nearing bankruptcy. For the DSP it promised a route to power which their leadership took advantage of, and a way to marginalize their Propaganda Chief, whose split with the party brass was becoming increasingly vicious.

In the elections the SPD, Zentrum and DVP lost seats, as did many of the smaller parties. The National Front became the largest Party, and the Communist Party the third largest. Due to this it was impossible to form a coalition without including either of them. This in turn meant it was impossible to form a majority government, the SPD was unwilling to work with the National Front and Zentrum and the DVP were adamantly unwilling to work with the Communists.

President Hindenburg thus had to appoint a minority government. It was the DVP who were the kingmakers in this arrangement, whoever they chose would be the governing party. Given the SPD’s closeness to the communists, the DVP chose to coalition with the National Front. This met Hindenburg’s approval and Eduard Dingledey became Chancellor of Germany…

…Hans Moller became an increasingly loud dissident within the KPD. However he was increasingly isolated. Most of the dissent within the KPD was over Thalmann’s orders from Moscow which placed the SPD as the KPD’s prime enemies, rather than the far right. The so called moderate dissidents preferred to work with the SPD as part of a path to power through the ballot box. Moller on the other hand thought Thalmann was not going far enough. Stalin had betrayed Communism with his Socialism in one country policy, rather Trotsky had the right idea with a policy of permanent revolution. Thus Moller thought the KPD should get power through the Bayonet rather than the ballot box.

Realizing that most of the KPD would disagree with him, Moller and his associates decided that they would present the KPD with a fait accompli that would force them to follow his ideas. And to do so he would take an idea right out of the playbook of the Communist’s anarchist rivals…



-Excerpt from Unfinished Business: The Making of the Second World War, New American Press, Chicago, 2007
 
So the far right gets a good head start, but it sounds like the German reds are not out by a long shot! The next elections are going to be interesting.
 
I'm interested in how Facsism doesn't seem to be discredited TTL. This again coming from a US written book is another point toward the "US is a co-belligerent of Germany/Allied with Germany" theory.
 
So Fascist Italy is starting out with public works and infrastructure rather than focusing on purely military goals. Maybe in this timeline this means that they’ll be more competent, or at the very least, in better shape for when they do make war?
 
If Trotskyites are modelled after assassins of Franz Ferdinand, then they would kill Dingledey. And his death will give power to the far-righters. Just like Franz Ferdinand was a proponent of cooperation with Slavic population and his death gave a way for pro-war elements to take over.
 
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